Is this the end???????

[Max]

Admin, you said you were going to post further details about the two managers that were unceremoniously ordered out.

The information I have at the moment - regarding the abruptly dismissed management - is that one of the pubs is possibly, the Castle at Sheriff Hutton, and the other is situated in or near to Boston Spa. I will try and get more accurate info.

[357maddog]

Not sure about Sheriff Hutton but Boston Spa was definitely fob's area.

[Jon]

Sheriff Hutton is F.O.B's area.

[Alpine Drinker]

has to be humphreys or f.o.b's really theres only lady laura left over there now god bless her

[Coriolanus]

Since I have read this site, I have to say I have become more interested in the plight of Sam Smiths and as such I've travelled to different Sams pubs and have tried to glean bits of information from customers , staff etc. All I can say is that some of the things that appear on this website are only the tip of the iceberg. Unfortunately saying them here would almost always compromise the people who gave me the information, since it specifically relates to incidents or events at certain pubs and as such would provide a clear lead back to the informants. Suffice to say the madness that is recounted here is only a portion of the lunacy that is Sam Smiths at the moment. The current obsessions are with cutting staff hours at all costs, even to the detriment of the pub trade.

As I said, graphic examples of this are available, but would relate too specifically to the individuals concerned. However the one most overwhelming concern of both customers and staff that I have talked to, is the entertainment and the food policies. These are both strangling the life out of the business in a way that can only make you believe it is intentional. Stories abound of managers having to refuse bookings for Christmas parties, because of the refusal to cater for Christmas lunches/dinners. Pubs with function rooms tell of days when these rooms would be booked up for parties/dinner dances, and a whole variety of events not just at this time of the year but throughout the year, but which now are effectively storage rooms because they are not allowed to cater for them or provide entertainment.

I can only conclude that in these difficult times Mr Smith is feeling generous because no doubt he is financially secure enough to ride this economic storm without customers in his pubs, and being the good samaritan that he is, he is driving all his customers into the arms of his competitors so that they might survive the current financial downturn too. Lunatic in charge of the asylum, I believe that is the phrase?

[blueboy]

Coriolanus, that's a superb post mate, absolutely spot on. My wife and I are keen to do well. The busier the better because time rolls on more quickly when we are busy.
We are unfortunately held back by the man whose pocket we could absolutely bulge if he would only listen to us and his other staff.
We are in a pub that would make a killing if we had ordinary TV in the tap room for the sportsmen and racegoers, and backing music in the lounge for the posh people.
Its such a shame for all concerned. Come on Humph, get your head out of the sand and let us all make you some cash and at the same time lift moral.

[yorkie]

I understand Xmas has been cancelled at Sams, no extensions whatsoever over Xmas & New Year!

In the words of V. Meldrew 'I dont believe it'

The policies adopted by the brewery over the last few years must be the longest suicide note in history. Who is going to go to a Sams pub on Xmas Eve/New Years Eve and be kicked out at 11.20? 

[Coriolanus]

From what I have been led to believe, xmas extensions cannot be applied for in all instances, and as such, Xmas Eve last orders will be at 11pm. However the existing licences do allow for all pubs to open for 24 hours if they wish over New Years Eve. So Sams pubs will be able to let the New Year in (albeit silently) until whatever time they wish. The only problem being whether they will be allowed any extra staff hours to open until say 1am or will managers be expected to man the pumps singlehandedly? Mind you, no music, no alternative food to pies, no dinner dances, no nothing, its going to be difficult for any pub to entice people in until 12 O'clock.

Surely Humphrey won't forbid his managers from opening late on New Years Eve, will he? Mind you, I hesitate to suggest anything because just when you think it cannot get any worse, he comes up with another beauty.

[minsterman]

Who is going to go to a Sams pub on Xmas Eve/New Years Eve and be kicked out at 11.20? 

From my experience - my local is becoming a meeting or waiting room, during these festive times. People meet up and have a cheapy drink then, as it comes to Sam Smiths bedtime - it's time to go into the town, and start enjoying Christmas!!!

Most noticeably, you leave the Sams pub, to go into a warm welcoming venue, playing Christmas music ("So here it is, merry Christmas, everybody's having fun..", etc..), and because other venues cater more in the drinks variety for the ladies, you suddenly find yourself in a better, more even mix of people - just in time for any mistletoe. 

I guese the other possible advantage, is that it allows the opportunity for the hard working management and staff, to get away, and hopefully enjoy themselves a little bit at another venue.

[centurion]

Who is going to go to a Sams pub on Xmas Eve/New Years Eve and be kicked out at 11.20? 

Some do
 

From my experience - my local is becoming a meeting or waiting room, during these festive times. People meet up be able to talk to each other, and have a cheapy drink then, as it comes to Sam Smiths bedtime - it's time to go into the town, and start enjoying Christmas!!!and star on local CCTV everywhere!!
And some complain that, christmas 'gets earlier every year'

Most noticeably, you leave the Sams pub, to go into a warm welcoming venue, playing Christmas music ("So here it is, merry Christmas, everybody's having fun..", etc..), For the 40th year running, try playing that non stop for a month. and because other venues cater more in the drinks variety for the ladies,What ?, blackcurrant in there 1/2? you suddenly find yourself in a better, more even mix of people - just in time for any mistletoe.  And any bother goes with them

I guese the other possible advantage, is that it allows the opportunity for the hard working management and staff, to get away,daonly open 365 and 1/2 days... heaven!!! and hopefully enjoy themselves a little bit at another venue. after moaning about being charged to get in!!

[minsterman]

Let me put it another way..

I have enjoyed the majority of 30 years of Christmas celebrations at my local Sams pub. But due to the continuing change in regime - it's all going down the pan!!! And there's only one person to blame - Smith!!!

Addressing your replies 'centurion'..

I know every Sam's is not the same, but my post related to my local. Previously, we used to have music in the upstairs entertainment room, and the pool room. Everywhere else was music free - and even where there was music, it was at a volume that didn't hinder conversation. Occasionally, we had a good old sing-song round the piano in one of the rooms - but one could at least choose. A lot of people enjoy music!!!

We have CCTV in the pub anyway!!!

To hear some kind of Christmas music, does help with an atmosphere - be it background carols, or whatever. It's very noticeable, when at the end of the evening, we cross the road to a respectable pub, with nice relaxing background music - and are reminded of what we are missing!!!

Some Sam's pubs get their share of 'bother' too!!!

Believe it or not - not everyone enjoys the limited choice of wines and spirits, plus the lack of items such as Tia Maria, limiting the selection of cocktails. I used to drink a lot of Glenfiddich - but non of their own brands can match it (in my opinion) so yet more lost trade.

After all have finished for the evening at my local - we all meet up in the pub across the road. There's a choice of other pubs withing 2 minutes walking distance - and none of them charge an entrance fee.

Centurion, I appreciate you defending your place/local, and I would normally do the same. But I'm just making an observation based on my local, as things have deteriorated due to Smith.

Up until late, many old friends would appear on their return home each Christmas, and we would unexpectedly meet in my local. We don't see as many now, as people like to settle in one venue in our town at Christmas if busy, so there's no risk of not getting in. As our place closes earlier than any others, it's no longer the choice of many returning visitors. To meet old friends, one must now drink elsewhere.

I can see it getting much worse. The landlady's last day tomorrow - and Smith only started interviewing for the job today!!! It's a challenging pub for anyone, as it consists of at least 7 separate public rooms on two floors, with connecting corridors. I would say, what has helped a lot with the previous landlady, is that she had the support of some core regulars - keeping an eye on things. And one of them has had his own discreet 2-way radio, and is part of the local Pub Watch scheme - giving information to the landlady from other local pubs, and being able to instantly summons local police if need be.

I only found out last week, that this 'guardian' guy (who had his own security business), does all of this on a voluntary basis, and has even paid for the 2-way himself - as Smith wont fund anything like that in our local. After speaking with the guy last night, it was evident that he may no longer be supporting the pub. Incidentally - that is the same chap who has been voluntarily doing the popular Tuesday quiz over the last year. He intimated that he wasn't planning in subsidizing the brewery operation - and had mainly supplied the service, as a good deed to the landlady, who has been a sole manager.

If our pub loses the support of this chap, and other regulars - then I can see all of the trouble makers coming back in during the week - making it a no go area for us decent folk. And only one person to blame - that maniac Smith!!!

[Coriolanus]

I quite agree Minsterman. Each pub is different, as is each manager/landlord/tenant. Over the years I have seen several different managers come and go in my local, some of them very good and some which were completely useless. However each one brought their own qualities to the job. The best ones, in the sense that they appealed to more customers, were the ones who ran a tight ship and didn't allow any nonsense in their pub. They were friends with everyone but would not allow anyone to jeopardise the harmony of the establishment by contravening their standards. Everyone knows where they stand and as such know they can go to their local to feel safe and meet friends. Equally a pub over the road was a very popular pub in which the landlord tolerated an anything goes policy, which tended to go down well with those not welcome in my own safe haven. What I'm trying to say is that it is horses for courses and each manager has his own way of doing things. The current problem with Sams is that there is nothing a manager can do to entice people in and to then keep them once they are in.

Sport and entertainment were natural ways of achieving this, but they have obviously gone. Food was a way of the manager putting his individuality on a pub by home made creations, but obviously that has since gone. All that is left are quiz nights, which are obviously under threat at your local once the landlady leaves, Minsterman. No entertainment also means no scope for music quizzes too. I dare say there are other things that can be employed but the choices are severely curtailed when these main staples of getting people in to the pub are taken away.

For this reason, I too have noticed a decline in regular friends coming into the pub. Of course it could be the economic climate, but I do know for a fact that some of the pubs regulars now spend most of their time in another establishment, where they can watch the horse racing or just the News every afternoon and get a good homemade steak pie which is reasonably priced (?4.00 as opposed to ?5.95 for something that was originally made by a machine and was cooked months ago) , comes with fresh veg and a choice of chips, mashed potatoes or new potatoes. I know that this is true because I have begun to reluctantly join them. I feel as though I am letting my Sams pub down, and especially my manager who is trying his best to sell the company food but to no avail. As I have said before, I have tried 3 different things off the menu, and whilst it is not inedible, it is not worth ?5.95 and none of it was worth trying again.

And that is the point really, we had a good pub and a good manager who kept a good house that was quite busy virtually the whole day. Now, because the manager has no ammunition to fight back with, the place is virtually empty until the evening trade when most of the old regulars meet up again, as much through habit as anything. It is noticeable that we regulars are getting less and less. To once again labour the point, there is nothing to entice new people in. Put the TV's back in, (we aren't even asking for Sky TV, just normal channels), let the managers do proper food at competitive prices, allow music, especially in those houses with function rooms, and get Humphrey Smith to simply concern himself with brewing some great beers, and to let his managers (what few good ones he has left) go about the job of filling his pubs.

[centurion]

  SHOCK, HORROR!!! Announced yesterday

Nationaly, sale of pies increase by 6%, worth ?218,000,000 to the catering trade.

Hollands, Pukka, Piemaster, well pleased.

Wigan, national home of the pie, delighted.

Locally, Pie Mash & peas served on paper plate with plastic K&F at cafe outside in market. ?4.50

Food for thought???

[Max]

Announced everyday - Not such a shock

Sams food turnover, at an all time low!

Food with little thought.

 

[Coriolanus]

Hey, Admin, did you get any more info about the pubs in Sherriff Hutton and Boston spa, where the managers were summarily sacked?

As for the food issue, I am still trying to find a Sams house that is doing well. I have travelled to 5 pubs in my immediate area, all of which used to do food, 2 of which were very busy company catering pubs and the other three were franchised, 2 of which were very busy and one that just ticked over, as much through that managers lethargy as anything. At this moment in time 2 of the 5 are not even doing food any more 'because its not worth it'. Those are the exact words of the person behind one of the bars. When pressed a little she said that they had been allowed to stop food production because they couldnt compete with other local outlets (which says a lot about the new menu!!!!) One of the once exceptionally busy company catering food houses is absolutely on its knees because it relied entirely on a food trade and the other is simply going through the motions, as is one of the old franchised houses which is my local and which I know considers it a good day if they do 4 meals now, but usually they do none for half the week. I must stress that in both these houses the management are doing their level best to promote the food even though it must be a soul destroying task for them. I've tried it 3 times in my local and once in another establishment.

I've said it before, the food is mostly edible, but is not something you would go out of your way for, and indeed people now seem to be going out of their way to avoid it. Believe me I have tried it in order to give it a chance and indeed I really wanted to like it because I don't want to go elsewhere, but if I need a meal that is what I shall now be doing. I think 4 meals deserves some sort of a medal anyway. Sams must be losing hundreds of thousands of pounds simply in beer revenue throughout the estate, never mind the loss of food revenue in old company catering houses. The amount of Christmas bookings for Christmas lunches or dinners that I have heard turned away first hand is staggering , and these are only the ones I hear whilst sat at the bar, how many more must there be?

I've heard rumours of a handful of Sams pubs that are being allowed to put on a separate menu alongside the pie menu. I was told that one of these pubs was under Humphreys jurisdiction, and one was this 'Fran' character. If that is the case, why? Surely it isn't fair on other outlets that are not allowed to serve anything else but the frozen stuff. What is the reasoning I wonder? 
Does anyone know of any Sams outlets that are doing this or indeed of any that are doing very well on food at all? I am certainly going to have to travel further afield in my area to find any, but is it worth looking, I wonder?

Still time to save Christmas. Please......