Author Topic: White rose copyright action  (Read 3418 times)

Offline DarkieBoy

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Re: White rose copyright action
« Reply #60 on: Oct 12 - 2011 »
The only person who's referred to ?500,000 costs incurred by Sams is the spokesman for Cropton Brewery. Part of the judge's comments are interesting...

As I observed at the outset of this judgment, the costs are out of all proportion to what is at stake, particularly from Cropton Brewery's perspective. The legal process appears to have caused the parties to become entrenched in their positions rather than seeking common ground. I suspect that the costs will themselves quickly have become an obstacle to settlement. Whether the fact that Cropton Brewery has been represented under two conditional fee agreements is a factor in this I cannot say. But what I can say is that in future disputes of this nature the possibility of mediation should be explored as soon as is practicable.    

Conditional Fee Arrangement indicates that Cropton had a 'No win, no fee' solicitor so I think they might just be egging up the costs they incurred, and possibly the costs incurred by Sams as well, because while it will have been very expensive, I'm not sure it would be quite that high.

The full judgement is online athttp://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2011/1879.html if anyone can really be bothered to wade through it.

Interesting to note section 23 about the number of pubs operated by the brewery. The magical 200  :P Look at the areas

Section 23 reads as follows:
Samuel Smith operates over 200 tied public houses. These are concentrated in Yorkshire, Lancashire and Nottinghamshire, but there are some scattered throughout the UK including in London. Samuel Smith also sells its beers in various kinds of free premises, which include pubs, working men's clubs, social and sports clubs, restaurants and caf?s. Again, these are concentrated in Yorkshire, Lancashire and Nottinghamshire, but are also to be found elsewhere. The bottled beers are also available via various different kinds of retail premises, but not chain supermarkets. There are retail outlets selling the beers nationwide, but there are areas where the nearest outlet is some distance away.

Not sure why they mention Nottinghamshire (three pubs) over say Cheshire (13 pubs) or Lincolnshire (13 pubs and a "brewery"), which both have more pubs.

Again, it states "over 200 tied public houses", which in my mind excludes social clubs (which may be owned by Samuel Smith Old Brewery.

DB.

Strange. Rochdale has about 30 i think

Rochdale would count under Lancashire.

DB.


Is that a Annex of Yorkshire :P

I think NOT!  >:(

DB.

Getting technical on boundaries now

Far from technical, it's a one thousand year old fact!  And this discussion could result in another civil war (of the Roses)...and we all know who won the last one that ended in 1485!  ;D

DB

Offline OldBreweryDrinker

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Re: White rose copyright action
« Reply #61 on: Oct 12 - 2011 »
The only person who's referred to ?500,000 costs incurred by Sams is the spokesman for Cropton Brewery. Part of the judge's comments are interesting...

As I observed at the outset of this judgment, the costs are out of all proportion to what is at stake, particularly from Cropton Brewery's perspective. The legal process appears to have caused the parties to become entrenched in their positions rather than seeking common ground. I suspect that the costs will themselves quickly have become an obstacle to settlement. Whether the fact that Cropton Brewery has been represented under two conditional fee agreements is a factor in this I cannot say. But what I can say is that in future disputes of this nature the possibility of mediation should be explored as soon as is practicable.    

Conditional Fee Arrangement indicates that Cropton had a 'No win, no fee' solicitor so I think they might just be egging up the costs they incurred, and possibly the costs incurred by Sams as well, because while it will have been very expensive, I'm not sure it would be quite that high.

The full judgement is online athttp://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2011/1879.html if anyone can really be bothered to wade through it.

Interesting to note section 23 about the number of pubs operated by the brewery. The magical 200  :P Look at the areas

Section 23 reads as follows:
Samuel Smith operates over 200 tied public houses. These are concentrated in Yorkshire, Lancashire and Nottinghamshire, but there are some scattered throughout the UK including in London. Samuel Smith also sells its beers in various kinds of free premises, which include pubs, working men's clubs, social and sports clubs, restaurants and caf?s. Again, these are concentrated in Yorkshire, Lancashire and Nottinghamshire, but are also to be found elsewhere. The bottled beers are also available via various different kinds of retail premises, but not chain supermarkets. There are retail outlets selling the beers nationwide, but there are areas where the nearest outlet is some distance away.

Not sure why they mention Nottinghamshire (three pubs) over say Cheshire (13 pubs) or Lincolnshire (13 pubs and a "brewery"), which both have more pubs.

Again, it states "over 200 tied public houses", which in my mind excludes social clubs (which may be owned by Samuel Smith Old Brewery.

DB.

Strange. Rochdale has about 30 i think

Rochdale would count under Lancashire.

DB.


Is that a Annex of Yorkshire :P

I think NOT!  >:(

DB.

Getting technical on boundaries now

Far from technical, it's a one thousand year old fact!  And this discussion could result in another civil war (of the Roses)...and we all know who won the last one that ended in 1485!  ;D

DB

It could definately turn nasty and history not good

Offline Malchetone

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Re: White rose copyright action
« Reply #62 on: Oct 12 - 2011 »
The only person who's referred to ?500,000 costs incurred by Sams is the spokesman for Cropton Brewery. Part of the judge's comments are interesting...

As I observed at the outset of this judgment, the costs are out of all proportion to what is at stake, particularly from Cropton Brewery's perspective. The legal process appears to have caused the parties to become entrenched in their positions rather than seeking common ground. I suspect that the costs will themselves quickly have become an obstacle to settlement. Whether the fact that Cropton Brewery has been represented under two conditional fee agreements is a factor in this I cannot say. But what I can say is that in future disputes of this nature the possibility of mediation should be explored as soon as is practicable.    

Conditional Fee Arrangement indicates that Cropton had a 'No win, no fee' solicitor so I think they might just be egging up the costs they incurred, and possibly the costs incurred by Sams as well, because while it will have been very expensive, I'm not sure it would be quite that high.

The full judgement is online athttp://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2011/1879.html if anyone can really be bothered to wade through it.

Interesting to note section 23 about the number of pubs operated by the brewery. The magical 200  :P Look at the areas

Section 23 reads as follows:
Samuel Smith operates over 200 tied public houses. These are concentrated in Yorkshire, Lancashire and Nottinghamshire, but there are some scattered throughout the UK including in London. Samuel Smith also sells its beers in various kinds of free premises, which include pubs, working men's clubs, social and sports clubs, restaurants and caf?s. Again, these are concentrated in Yorkshire, Lancashire and Nottinghamshire, but are also to be found elsewhere. The bottled beers are also available via various different kinds of retail premises, but not chain supermarkets. There are retail outlets selling the beers nationwide, but there are areas where the nearest outlet is some distance away.

Not sure why they mention Nottinghamshire (three pubs) over say Cheshire (13 pubs) or Lincolnshire (13 pubs and a "brewery"), which both have more pubs.

Again, it states "over 200 tied public houses", which in my mind excludes social clubs (which may be owned by Samuel Smith Old Brewery.

DB.

Strange. Rochdale has about 30 i think

Rochdale would count under Lancashire.

DB.


Is that a Annex of Yorkshire :P

I think NOT!  >:(

DB.

Getting technical on boundaries now

Far from technical, it's a one thousand year old fact!  And this discussion could result in another civil war (of the Roses)...and we all know who won the last one that ended in 1485!  ;D

DB

Well, Lancashire didn't actually come into being until 1182. Before that, the top bit was part of Yorkshire, and the bottom bit known as the "land between Ribble and Mersey", and was administratively lumped in with Cheshire.

The Welsh came out of nowhere and won the last set of Wars of the Roses.